tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post8523902952967352834..comments2024-03-26T11:33:59.219-06:00Comments on Religion in American History: Putting it All on the TablePaul Harveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13881964303772343114noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-35026579052496221792013-02-28T17:43:03.321-07:002013-02-28T17:43:03.321-07:00Oh, and sorry--I thought my memory had failed me, ...Oh, and sorry--I thought my memory had failed me, but here's the money quote, which y'd never know from <i>Inherit the Wind</i>.<br /><br /><br />DARROW: Then when the Bible said, for instance, "And God called the firmament heaven, and the evening and the morning were the second day," that does not necessarily mean twenty-four hours?<br /><br />BRYAN: I do not think it necessarily does.<br /><br />DARROW: Do you think it does or does not?<br /><br />BRYAN: I know a great many think so.<br /><br />DARROW: What do you think?<br /><br />BRYAN: I do not think it does.<br /><br />DARROW: You think these were not literal days?<br /><br />BRYAN: I do not think they were 24-hour days.<br /><br />DARROW: What do you think about it?<br /><br />BRYAN: That is my opinion -- I do not know that my opinion is better on that subject than those who think it does.<br /><br />DARROW: You do not think that?<br /><br />BRYAN: No. But I think it would be just as easy for the kind of God we believe in to make the earth in six days as in six years or in six million years or in six hundred million years. I do not think it important whether we believe one or the other.<br /><br />_____________<br /><br />BTW, WJB's testimony was not offered to the jury, only entered into the record for the appellate court. WJB's long-windedness here is quote intentional, not mere grandstanding.<br /><br />_________________<br /><br />JUDGE RAULSTON: It is not competent evidence for the jury.<br /><br />McKENZIE: Nor is it competent in the Appellate Courts, and these gentlemen would no more file the testimony of Col. Bryan as a part of the record in this case than they would file a rattlesnake and handle it themselves.<br /><br />DARROW, HAYS, MALONE: We will file it. We will file it. We will file every word of it.<br /><br />BRYAN: Your Honor, they have not asked a question legally, and the only reason they have asked any question is for the purpose -- as the question about Jonah was asked -- for a chance to give this agnostic an opportunity to criticize a believer in the word of God; and I answered the question in order to shut his mouth, so that he cannot go out and tell his atheistic friends that I would not answer his questions. That is the only reason, no more reason in the world.<br /><br />Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-28855890677198400602013-02-28T17:27:35.549-07:002013-02-28T17:27:35.549-07:00Vary nice, Cara. WJB represents a very odd reshuf...Vary nice, Cara. WJB represents a very odd reshuffle of the Christian, the modern, and the liberal.<br /><br />BTW, the actual transcript of the Scopes Monkey trial. That damnable movie did such a disservice to the man, and to the truth. WJB was far from the fool you see in the play and the film.<br /><br />http://personal.uncc.edu/jmarks/Darrow.html<br /><br />BRYAN: These gentlemen have not had much chance. They did not come here to try this case. They came here to try revealed religion. I am here to defend it, and they can ask me any questions they please.<br /><br />JUDGE RAULSTON: All right. [Applause.]<br /><br />DARROW: Great applause from the bleachers.<br /><br />BRYAN: From those whom you call "yokels."<br /><br />DARROW: I have never called them yokels.<br /><br />BRYAN: That is the ignorance of Tennessee, the bigotry.<br /><br />DARROW: You mean who are applauding you?<br /><br />BRYAN: Those are the people whom you insult.<br /><br />DARROW: You insult every man of science and learning in the world because he does not believe in your fool religion.<br /><br />JUDGE RAULSTON: I will not stand for that.<br /><br />...[later]<br /><br /><br />DARROW: Do you consider that every religion on earth competes with the Christian religion?<br /><br />BRYAN: I think everybody who believes in the Christian religion believes so...<br /><br />DARROW: I am asking what you think.<br /><br />BRYAN: I do not regard them as competitive because I do not think they have the same source as we have.<br /><br />DARROW: You are wrong in saying "competitive"?<br /><br />BRYAN: I would not say competitive, but the religious unbelievers.<br /><br />DARROW: Unbelievers of what?<br /><br />BRYAN: In the Christian religion.<br /><br />DARROW: What about the religion of Buddha?<br /><br />BRYAN: Well, I can tell you something about that, if you would like to know.<br /><br />DARROW: What about the religion of Confucius or Buddha?<br /><br />BRYAN: Well, I can tell you something about them, if you would like to know.<br /><br />DARROW: Did you ever investigate them?<br /><br />BRYAN: Somewhat.<br /><br />DARROW: Do you regard them as competitive?<br /><br />BRYAN: No, I think they are very inferior. Would you like for me to tell you what I know about it?<br /><br />DARROW: No.<br /><br />BRYAN: Well, I shall insist on giving it to you.<br /><br />DARROW: You won't talk about free silver, will you?<br /><br />BRYAN: Not at all.<br /><br />...<br /><br /><br />BRYAN: I mentioned the word "reciprocity" to show the difference between Christ's teaching in that respect and the teachings of Confucius. I call your attention to another difference. One of the followers of Confucius asked him, "What do you think of the doctrine that you should reward evil with good?" And the answer of Confucius was, "Reward evil with justice and and reward good with good. Love your enemies. Overcome evil with good. And there is a difference between the two teachings -- a difference incalculable in its effect and in -- the third difference -- people who scoff at religion and try to make it appear that Jesus brought nothing into the world, talk about the Golden Rule of Confucius. Confucius said, "Do not unto others what you would not have others do unto you." There is all the difference in the world between a negative harmlessness and a positive helpfulness, and the Christian religion is a religion of helpfulness, of service, embodied in the language of Jesus when he said, "Let him who would be chiefest among you be the servant of all." Those are the three differences between the teachings of Jesus and the teaching of Confucius, and they are very strong differences on very important questions. Now, Mr. Darrow, you asked me if I knew anything about Buddha.<br /><br />DARROW: You want to make a speech on Buddha, too?<br /><br />BRYAN: No sir, I want to answer your question on Buddha.<br /><br />DARROW: I asked you if you knew anything about him.<br /><br />BRYAN: I do.<br /><br />DARROW: Well, that's answered, then.<br /><br />BRYAN: Buddha...<br /><br />DARROW: Well, wait a minute. You answered the question.<br /><br />RAULSTON: I will let him tell what he knows.<br /><br />DARROW: All he knows?<br /><br />RAULSTON: Well, I don't know about that.<br /><br />BRYAN: I won't insist on telling all I know. I will tell more than Mr. Darrow wants told.<br /><br />DARROW: Well, all right, tell it. I don't care...<br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-21901661763369818442013-02-27T10:43:25.848-07:002013-02-27T10:43:25.848-07:00Thanks, Cara. I agree entirely with your assessme...Thanks, Cara. I agree entirely with your assessment of DH. The field still has a very narrow conception WHY religion matters, as I note in a forthcoming review of an excellent article by Andrew Preston in Cold War History, his very nice follow-up piece to his magisterial Sword of the Spirit, Shield of Faith.Mark T. Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13687874101232569510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-43809920536837165132013-02-27T10:11:54.623-07:002013-02-27T10:11:54.623-07:00Thanks, Mark! Actually, I'm not so much advoca...Thanks, Mark! Actually, I'm not so much advocating a biographical approach as re-thinking what should "count" when we focus on individuals. It seems that most studies, especially what I read on Wilson or Bryan, focus on their church attendance, statements about God, or the "authenticity" of their rhetoric (the assumption being that politicians don't *really* believe what they say--and we need to get to the bottom of it). I'm thinking that to study religion and foreign policy, you have to think more broadly about the religious world/environment policymakers construct for themselves and, by the nature of their position, the nation. Their personal beliefs and rituals are a part of that, but its also, I think, the more mundane activities and objects they surround themselves with. <br /><br />To get back to your first point, I think DH is still concerned, primarily, with causation. Religion may matter more in DH, but it matters in relation to the cause and effect of policymaking and as the "moral impulse" behind policy. Maybe this post isn't a great example of my interest there, but there will be more to come!Cara Burnidgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352644751882154323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-61842898596971549142013-02-27T09:30:18.690-07:002013-02-27T09:30:18.690-07:00Thanks for this wonderful post and image, Cara! I...Thanks for this wonderful post and image, Cara! It seems the debate in Diplomatic History is no longer "if" religion matters but "why" religion matters. You seem to be saying that we should move beyond simply documenting uses of religious rhetoric and rather chart the "religiousity" of the policymaker(s). In other words, biography (personal or group) is the way to establish the always-elusive "influence" of religion on statecraft. Is that a fair summary? I'm essentially taking that same approach in regards to the Council on Foreign Relations, so any thoughts you have would be welcome.Mark T. Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13687874101232569510noreply@blogger.com