tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post6822983612285209456..comments2024-03-26T11:33:59.219-06:00Comments on Religion in American History: John Adams and "The Religion of Democracy"Paul Harveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13881964303772343114noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-5015968995730587522015-09-03T09:32:43.973-06:002015-09-03T09:32:43.973-06:00Much delayed, but in response to Tom--it's als...Much delayed, but in response to Tom--it's also true that others at the time thought so, too, not just Wilberforce. The great Trinitarian/Unitarian Battles showed that Trinitarians thought once Unitarians compromised on the Trinity, it was downhill to infidelity. For this, you could see Jedidiah Morse, several of his sons, and Leonard Woods.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14372548161435515544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-17860855578499597382015-08-13T12:11:47.437-06:002015-08-13T12:11:47.437-06:00Thanks for your reply, Jonathan.Thanks for your reply, Jonathan.Wilson Brissetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04441412692964537676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-46503509911864300292015-08-09T17:59:57.288-06:002015-08-09T17:59:57.288-06:00Thx for this. A
religious trajectory from "R...Thx for this. A<br /><br /><i>religious trajectory from "Reformation Christians" to "liberal Christians" to "post-Christian religious liberals"</i>, <br /><br />--specifically in New England, the seat of unitarianism as well as today's Ivy League nexus of northeastern liberalism--seems a sustainable claim.<br /><br />On the theological tip, William Wilberforce called unitarianism a "half-way house" to "infidelity," and his prediction of the aforementioned "post-Christianity" seems quite prescient.Tom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-57782598523268247702015-08-07T14:32:06.627-06:002015-08-07T14:32:06.627-06:00Wilson,
I think that's a fair question.
I did...Wilson,<br />I think that's a fair question.<br /><br />I didn't want to bog down the piece with more distinctions, but you're right to ask for them...and comments are a great place to make them.<br /><br />Kittelstrom depicts the only opponents of the rationalist liberals as "neo-Calvinists," or heirs of the 1st Great Awakening. I didn't think there was much justification for that label. (Although, had there been some serious engagement with the thought of Jonathan Edwards, there might have been some traction.) <br /><br />Most scholars would say there were several options in New England at the time. "Old Calvinists" (like Moses Mather) tried to straddle divisions. Also, some orthodox were more willing to coexist with the rationalists than were others.<br /><br />Rather than draw these points out, I just went with "orthodox," as in following the New England Way (broadly along the lines of Puritan and Calvinist doctrine) and not questioning doctrines such as the divinity of Christ, the substitutionary atonement of Christ, the trinity, or eternal judgment.<br /><br />As for Adams, he seemed to be able to relate well to many camps, suggesting that what he communicated in public was very different from his internal reflections. Also, he had a great ability to politically communicate different emphases to different people.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14372548161435515544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-8599531766529497352015-08-06T09:55:08.999-06:002015-08-06T09:55:08.999-06:00I wonder about how you're using "orthodox...I wonder about how you're using "orthodox" in your discussion of Adams. You critique Kittelstrom for not defining "Reformation Christian" carefully enough, but the rest of your post assumes that we all know what we're talking about when we say "orthodox." You contrast it with rationalism and align it with anti-French Protestant nationalism and support of civil religion. Are these the markers of orthodoxy? I'm only familiar with Adams through the Jefferson letters, so I'm very interested in the possibility of recognizing a more religiously traditional version of Adams. But the examples of orthodoxy offered here seem very much like "Traditional American Protestant Civil Religion," which would be a quite narrow conception of Christian, or even Reformed, orthodoxy.Wilson Brissetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04441412692964537676noreply@blogger.com