tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post6356781738309494083..comments2024-03-26T11:33:59.219-06:00Comments on Religion in American History: Is #OccupyWallStreet a "Church of Dissent"?Paul Harveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13881964303772343114noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-43822789922040013752011-12-12T22:29:53.973-07:002011-12-12T22:29:53.973-07:00I don't think that the movement or its detract...I don't think that the movement or its detractors would want to attch any religious undertones to it. For one it would make the movement seem more conservative, which those in the movement would not want. Also, it would help to give the movement some legitamousy, which detractors would not want. This group of reigiously diverse people coming together for a single goal reminds me of Eck's "A New Religious America." This coming together of a religiously diverse group of people is exactly what she advocated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-56876448713476993952011-10-09T16:29:37.713-06:002011-10-09T16:29:37.713-06:00If not "church" (I agree, too much bagga...If not "church" (I agree, too much baggage comes along with that word) then how about simply "community"?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11414314552479220304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-21853754731238329252011-10-07T16:35:19.055-06:002011-10-07T16:35:19.055-06:00"What these people are doing is building, for...<i>"What these people are doing is building, for lack of a better word, a church of dissent."</i>---Matt Stoller<br /><br />"It's pretty clear now that what looked like it might have been some kind of counterculture is, in reality, just the plain old chaos of undifferentiated weirdness."---Jerry GarciaTom Van Dykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121072404143877596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-14370795417642417972011-10-07T15:19:14.492-06:002011-10-07T15:19:14.492-06:00That's a good point about the difference betwe...That's a good point about the difference between historians of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries (and perhaps also how "we" see the difference bewteen these centuries). My sense is that there's this assumption that nineteenth century Anglo-Americans are much more naturally inclined toward religion and morality as a motivating factor for politics and organizing, while the immigrants and their descendents after that are not. What strikes me, of course, is how much this history comes from the sources--of Anglo-American Protestants (newspapers and magazines especially)--which are written by people who don't see Catholics and Jews and religious others as having a religion that mattered to them.<br /><br />You're right-- the historians who don't recognize the "people's movements" that I'm referring to are mostly the ones who see socialism and syndicalism and the various kinds of Marxism and unionism as simply political/economic collaborations, unrelated to religion. Even though I'm finishing a dissertation on this subject, I'm honestly still, continually surprised at how religiously-motivated so many of these immigrant working classes and their children (and non immigrant working classes) are. (I assumed anarcho-syndicalists generally cared more about economics than religion--until I did more research this summer, and shocked myself.) <br /><br />And--even more--I keep on noticing how many of these protesters have wanted their religious/moral sentiment to be known, but found that the greatest tactic at shutting them up has been to write their religious sentiment out of the newspaper accounts.Janine Giordano Drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15743145462085629472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-67307768957430153002011-10-07T14:34:29.036-06:002011-10-07T14:34:29.036-06:00Great post Janine! Your question about the relucta...Great post Janine! Your question about the reluctance of historians to label movements "moral" or "religious" suggests a difference between those who study the nineteenth century (historians have no qualms talking about anti-slavery, temperance, social purity as moral) and those who study the twentieth century. But even in the nineteenth-century, such labels have a negative connotation. To use an example, historians often criticize the Garrisonian wing for its commitment to an exclusively moral opposition to slavery.<br /><br />Some nineteenth-century reformers (Lucretia Mott among them, of course) might have viewed "church" as implying establishment and hierarchy. She might have preferred something like "congregation."Carol Faulknernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-36117840533588722722011-10-06T23:20:59.857-06:002011-10-06T23:20:59.857-06:00I am both hopeful and frightened of the term "...I am both hopeful and frightened of the term "church" in this context. As a Christian I long for the same community that the #occupy movement is building because I sense in it an authentic practice that Jesus would surely have recognized. People coming together to care for one another not only in the simple acts of feeding the protesters, but in the the longer-term sense of truly standing up for one another and with one another to affect change for the benefit of "we the people." This is a beautiful thing.<br /><br />Yet I am also full of trepidation as 'church' has come to have so many negative connotations. I don't want to see this swelling tide of change swept away because people begin to associate it with a force that has too often - and too recently - been used to foster hate and greed. If naming this 'church' prevents people who have already been damaged by religious messages to stay away or go away then please let us find another word.<br /><br />At heart is the fervent prayer that we could reform church in such a way that Christians who believe in the progressive (in the more modern sense) gospel are no longer afraid of being lumped in with our crazy, right-wing church cousins. But that is the NEXT movement. For now let's all #occupy and create a more equitable and loving world. That might just open the possibility of finding authentic church once we're done with this first task. Or maybe we'll find that they are, after all, the same thing.Cindy Solomonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04296443673241199875noreply@blogger.com