tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post209563724310161798..comments2024-03-26T11:33:59.219-06:00Comments on Religion in American History: Compassion Forum at Messiah College this Sunday NightPaul Harveyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13881964303772343114noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-46438947512165561852008-04-14T14:20:00.000-06:002008-04-14T14:20:00.000-06:00I wonder if "anonymous" (the first comment up ther...I wonder if "anonymous" (the first comment up there) meant that the Democrats seem to be the ones with religion this time around, rather than the Republicans. At least in terms of candidates. <BR/><BR/>There is something interesting about this. The remaining Republican candidate is not talking religion (while the Republican candidates who did lost), and the two remaining Democrats are talking a lot about religion and seem to be people who are actually pretty religious themselves. <BR/><BR/>None of the remaining candidates would be considered "evangelical."<BR/><BR/>What do we make of that, if anything? Do we need to rethink our talk about the power of religion and politics in light of a changing landscape?rjchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12447486006327105309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-30998188459327993552008-04-14T13:26:00.000-06:002008-04-14T13:26:00.000-06:00Ed, I see what you mean. All four of those make g...Ed, I see what you mean. All four of those make good sense. If we were to extend that out to certain political and cultural patterns, I think it wouldn't work too well. <BR/><BR/>On another matter, millennialism, I see a real divide. Granted, only certain elements within the evangelical community stress millennialism. But it's been definitional to many. It's hard to find that within historically black churches.Randallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16755286304057000048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-90631735279205593582008-04-14T10:30:00.000-06:002008-04-14T10:30:00.000-06:00Great comment, Ed. I'll have to read the essay Ran...Great comment, Ed. I'll have to read the essay Randall recommended.<BR/><BR/>The discusssion points to the limitations of defining evangelicals theologically. The problem is that there isn't a great alternative. Denominational affiliations don't work, and self-identification underreports people who most scholars would probably consider evangelicals.John G. Turnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08461094355047650502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-47117431032613645552008-04-14T07:51:00.000-06:002008-04-14T07:51:00.000-06:00Good point Randall! As you well know, defining eva...Good point Randall! As you well know, defining evangelicalism is tricky business. To define "evangelical" - which is always an imprecise term because it usually lumps a whole group of people together rather than referring to any specific organization - I usually follow David Bebbington (as does Mark Noll and George Marsden, typically). Bebbington suggests that there are four main categories:<BR/>Conversionism: (being "born again" in Christ<BR/>Activism: through missionary work and through doing social good<BR/>Biblicism<BR/>Crucicentrism<BR/><BR/>My reading in African American religious history suggests that many churchgoing African Americans (certainly not all) fulfill these four. In the end, I'm against raising another theological/religious divide (even in rhetoric) between whites and blacks that alleges to "improve" our understanding of both.<BR/><BR/>It is clearly the case that - statistically - many African Americans do not self-identity as evangelicals (this is why Michael Emerson and Christian Smith found very few for their study _Divided By Faith_).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-38278530582120143562008-04-14T07:31:00.000-06:002008-04-14T07:31:00.000-06:00Ed, I think the term "evangelical" is used a littl...Ed, I think the term "evangelical" is used a little too broadly here with reference to the Af-Am community. Maybe a little suspicion is in order. I liked the essay that Milton G. Sernett wrote on the matter some years ago, "Black Religion and the Question of Evangelical Identity," in The Variety of American Evangelicalism Donald W. Dayton and Robert K. Johnston, eds. (1991):<BR/><BR/>"Evangelical nomenclature . . . is not common currency among African-American Protestants. William Bentley writes, 'To blacks, at least the mainstream ones within the major black denominations, the word evangelical has little historical relevance. Instead, Bible believing is the more widely used descriptive term.'"<BR/><BR/>He follows with a use of the term, but with a number of caveats. One of his main points is that praxis not dogma has been foremast for black churches.Randallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16755286304057000048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-68252786098817721352008-04-14T06:01:00.000-06:002008-04-14T06:01:00.000-06:00John: I was hoping you might say a few words about...John: I was hoping you might say a few words about the absence of McCain, either as a comment to this post or in your follow-up post. What's the word on the streets of Messiah College?Mike Pasquierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910360700893031424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-42925183890290799152008-04-12T23:09:00.000-06:002008-04-12T23:09:00.000-06:00John: Thanks -- I can't follow the TV stuff right ...John: Thanks -- I can't follow the TV stuff right now, so will look forward to your wrap up afterwards.Paul Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13881964303772343114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-29718766803291938652008-04-12T22:05:00.000-06:002008-04-12T22:05:00.000-06:00Ed: Thanks. And you are absolutely correct about...Ed: Thanks. And you are absolutely correct about the post-Depression religious Democrats. Don't forget the working-class Catholic immigrants. I grew up in a family of Teamsters, milkmen, and contractors--fiercely Democratic, borderline socialist, and deeply, deeply Catholic, both spiritually and morally.John Feahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17856498511226523417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-52098449489962482582008-04-12T21:48:00.000-06:002008-04-12T21:48:00.000-06:00Anonymous: Thanks for the comment. You are right....Anonymous: <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comment. You are right. Perhaps it should read "Compassion is at the core of how evangelicals SHOULD practice their belief in the world." Thanks for pointing this out.<BR/><BR/>And "religion," of course, is not a zero-sum game. (Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are tying to say here). I think it goes without saying that if the Dems find religion, then that does not necessarily mean the GOP has lost it. But I do think that McCain will certainly try to connect with evangelicals over the course of the next several months. When he denied Messiah's invitation to speak at the Compassion Forum he mentioned that he has a "Compassion Tour" of his own planned later. I would like to see what this looks like.John Feahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17856498511226523417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-12248024521258637032008-04-12T21:43:00.000-06:002008-04-12T21:43:00.000-06:00John, have a wonderful time!!! I'm sure you will d...John, have a wonderful time!!! I'm sure you will do a fantastic job. I hope that someday African American Protestants will be counted in studies of "evangelical voting" to show that post Great Depression Democrats have never, ever, ever, been devoid of a bloc of "evangelical" voters. Moreover, there is a leftist tradition that is rooted in religious (albeit not necessarily 'evangelical') ideals - from FDR's fireside chats (which he considered sermons) to Du Bois's prayers for students and his reflections on the "Souls" of black folk, from Jimmy Carter's born again mentality to John Kerry's Catholic commitments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37589721331585843.post-36240487447653899362008-04-12T21:05:00.000-06:002008-04-12T21:05:00.000-06:00>>Compassion is at the core of how evangelicals pr...>>Compassion is at the core of how evangelicals practice their belief in the world.<<<BR/><BR/>I've got no problem with evangelicals at all, but this statement is over the top as a sweeping generalization. <BR/><BR/>And if Democrats have *finally* found religion, does McCain's victory mean that Republicans have finally lost it? Or toned it down? Whether or not he "worships with the Southern Baptists," McCain is far from being a vocal evangelical. Come to think of it, no outspoken evangelicals made it to the final rounds of the presidential election process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com